Rob The Long Island Cowboy Wrote:

ColbyPants Wrote:

Rob The Long Island Cowboy Wrote:and smashing a two year old girl through the side of a building is a political statement. 

ITs easy.  We are better than they are.  And while what happened is horrific and sad, We will not stoop anywhere down closer to their level.

TomC

sometimes to slaughter the swine you've got to get down in the mud.  sad fact but true.  i admire your views on people man and wish i could harbor your optimism about the human condition but i just can't.

ColbyPants Wrote:I am not condoning terrorist acts, and I am fucking sick of people equating holding The US GOVERNMENT to a higher standard than terrorist organizations as condoning their actions........

TomC

Quote: It is implicitly my fault as an american citizen if I let my government get away with human rights violations without question, as I had a part in electing these officials.  I keep hearing about how we are better than the terrorists.  Prove it.  Make the whole process utterly transparent.  We have this neat thing in the US called due process.  If they are guilty, theyll get theres.  Do we not trust the system??   Seems to me we don't.  When we stop with the innocent until proven guilty rap, gotta say its a sad day for this country.

All men are created equal.  Except Immigrants.  Illegals.  The accused.  Hmmm... dont remember that being the way it was written?

You guys can have your police state.

I'll move.

TomC

Quote:...........I keep hearing about how we are better than the terrorists.  Prove it.  Make the whole process utterly transparent.  We have this neat thing in the US called due process.  If they are guilty, theyll get theres.  Do we not trust the system??   Seems to me we don't.  When we stop with the innocent until proven guilty rap, gotta say its a sad day for this country...........

Quote:......All men are created equal.  Except Immigrants.  Illegals.  The accused.  Hmmm... dont remember that being the way it was written?

You guys can have your police state.

I'll move.

TomC

Rob The Long Island Cowboy Wrote:

Tonto The Long Island Sidekick Wrote:

Rob The Long Island Cowboy Wrote:

discdog Wrote:

Rob The Long Island Cowboy Wrote:

discdog Wrote:Tom it is pretty well documented, but I can help break it down:

Us - Play loud music               

They - Tie prisoner to chairs and beat them

Us - Sleep deprivation

They- Beat prisoners unconscious, then douse with water and apply electricity to make sure they're awake

Us - Strip them down to their skivvies and get in a pile, while walking around barking & embarrassing them

They - Cut of heads

Yeah, I can see the similarities. We get just what we deserve, it's all our fault, we're bringing it on ourselves, the rest of the world hates us.

Most of the torture we do, we inflict upon ourselves. I vaguely remember it as my 20's. (Sans the skivvies in a pile thing) It's also only effective on older detainees, for some reason the younger crowd doesn't seem as affected. Who'd a thunk it?

Thank God we have Liberals in this country who seem to have all the answers, but for some reason, they just come off as sounding like myrmidons.  

[winner]i am sooooo moving to georgia. 

Quote:You've got the books and we have the room!

my wife has already picked out about two dozen properties.  me i'm looking for the georgia peaches. 

What about me?  You'd leave me all alone to fight the massing hoads? hock:

the houses are huge bro.  bring the clan.

Tonto The Long Island Sidekick Wrote:

ColbyPants Wrote:I am not condoning terrorist acts, and [color="blue"]I am fucking sick of people equating holding The US GOVERNMENT to a higher standard than terrorist organizations as condoning their actions[/color]........

TomC

But that is exactly what they're doing.

 

[user=96]ColbyPants[/user] wrote:

Quote: It is implicitly my fault as an american citizen if[color="blue"] I let my government get away with human rights violations without question,[/color] as I had a part in electing these officials.  I keep hearing about how we are better than the terrorists.  [color="blue"]Prove it[/color].  Make the whole process utterly transparent.  We have this neat thing in the US called due process.  If they are guilty, theyll get theres.  [color="black"]Do we not trust the system??[/color]   Seems to me we don't.  When we stop with the innocent until proven guilty rap, gotta say its a sad day for this country.

All men are created equal.  Except Immigrants.  Illegals.  The accused.  Hmmm... dont remember that being the way it was written?

You guys can have your police state.

I'll move.

TomC

Where is your proof of these violations? You talk about "due process" for the terrorists, but condemn the US right off the bat and give the terrorists the benifit of doubt.


 

[user=96]ColbyPants[/user] wrote:

Quote:...........I keep hearing about how we are better than the terrorists.  Prove it.  Make the whole process utterly transparent.  We have this neat thing in the US called due process.  If they are guilty, theyll get theres.  [color="blue"]Do we not trust the system??[/color]   Seems to me we don't.  When we stop with the innocent until proven guilty rap, gotta say its a sad day for this country...........

Not when the "people" in the system would rather blame the US gov't for 9/11 rather than the actual terrorists.

Not when the "people" in the system try to prevent our troops from fighting the enemy by denying them ammo, armour, first aid supplies, etc...."slow bleed" they called it.

 

[user=96]ColbyPants[/user] wrote:

Quote:......All men are created equal.  [color="blue"]Except Immigrants.  Illegals.  [color="black"]The accused.[/color]  Hmmm... dont remember that being the way it was written?
[/color]
You guys can have your police state.

I'll move.

TomC

Last time I checked the books, entering the US illegally IS/WAS a criminal offense.  Do we give these law breakers a "gimme"? Do I get to go rob a store & get a freebie? I don't think so.

Legal immigrants, of course, are welcomed.

 

 
  

Quote:Tom, you may not condone the terrorists actions, but neither do you sound like you support the US. If this is not the case, sorry for the misunderstanding, that's just the way it came across in print.

discdog Wrote:Tom, the second part of that quote you posted "should" cover any hurt feelings. But this is a thread full of personal opinions, and not being Rob or Jim, I'm not polished enough as a speaker to say anything other than what comes into my head. Most people who know me in the real world call me (lovingly, I might add) the "Politician". But it's not because I double speak or try to phrase things properly. It's for being blunt and saying what's on my mind.

I generally refrain from participating in these types of threads as I know well enough that something is going to be said that pisses someone else off, and when I participate, that's normally me. But this topic especially will draw me in every time and I will say what I think, just like everyone else.

All that said, I don't apologize for my opinion. Nor do I think anyone else should. If you don't believe what you (not you personally) say, that's the only way your opinion can be changed. Only then should you (again, not you personally) ever apologize.

discdog Wrote:Tom you are correct that I don't intentionally set out to hurt or offend anyone. If you re-read the post you are referring to, I was not questioning your patriotism, merely giving my opinion as to how I felt you were coming across to me.

I know full & well that politcally, we will probably never see things the same. For whatever reason, we do not and will not see things the same. But even knowing that, I've always respected your the fact that you stand up for what you believe, in the old days, we called that values. Even though I don't understand them, with your conviction, I will and do respect them.

As for the response directed at you, I'm not sure how else I could have answered your question without being personal. Someone else, hell anyone else could probably see 7 different ways that I could have responded, but I just tend to be that dense. Sorry, for making it personal.