Youth smoking is focus of new Surgeon General report

[Skipper the cigar aFISHinodo]

I could not disagree more.

Grab an old white tee shirt. Cut out a piece of the cloth, say 6"x6". Fold that up into a smaller square, say, 2"x2". now fire up your stove and cook something. I don't care what. Get yourself a nice mouthful of food and spit it into the rag. WTF did that just prove?
Hell, I live and work in NYC. Do you want to see what my collars look like?

You CANNOT say tobacco is tobacco when comparing cigarettes to cigars. First of all, 60% of a cigarette is NOT tobacco. Every hear of Mother Liquor? It is what at least half of the cigarette is made of. And, it contains "ammonia based" Acid (used to increase absorption and dependency of nicotine). How much piss is in your cigars?
Sorry, I did not finish reading your post. You lost me on your opener.

[Skipper the cigar aFISHinodo]

http://www.jeffreywigand.com/WHOFinal.pdf
See page 28.

You can no more compare or group cigars with cigarettes than you can eggs with cake.

[Domniomaestro]

I thought about it.

I've been typing then erasing then typing it differently, and erasing and retyping a response for two hours.

There's no way to discuss this with you John, without it degenerating into a trollfest. So, you sit up there in new york and believe what you want. I wont be drawn down to your level.

[Skipper the cigar aFISHinodo]

I thought about it.

I've been typing then erasing then typing it differently, and erasing and retyping a response for two hours.

There's no way to discuss this with you John, without it degenerating into a trollfest. So, you sit up there in new york and believe what you want. I wont be drawn down to your level.

Degenerating? Seems to me you've done that and beyond. I used to think you were intelligent.

[Admin]

Brothers! the point is smoking! regardless of what kind of tobacco is in a cigarette or cigar! No smoking laws, means no cigar smoking as well no smoking pipes or cigarettes. We can debate and poke at each other all day on that subject and the different levels of quality from a cigarette, Primetime little cigar to a Philly Blunt, Swisher, or hand rolled with care Fuente. They ALL contain tobacco. They are all smoked by people of many different classes and income levels.

Is it fair to put down someone who smokes a Philly Blunt because you smoke Fuente cigars? Or prohibit the sale of those items because you smoke something better and just don't give an F? Should Boones Strawberry Hill wine be banned from corner stores because its not in the elite class as the Dom Perignon you special order? By ignoring what happens to cigarettes and the "cheap" cigars, then we are destined to suffer the same fate with our premium cigars because they too my friends are tobacco.

How are they going to draw the line on what is a "cheap" cigar and what is not? Price? Weight? Flavoring? They tried this with "little cigars / cigarillos" to tax them as cigarettes based on weight, then the manufacturers made them heavier/longer. Is a cigarillo a cigarette? No, but its tobacco.

If they pass a law prohibiting tobacco from being within the consumers reach, then say goodbye to the cigar store walk-in humidor rooms. I personally think they will force packaging changes first, making it generic and limiting advertising methods/mailorder/internet. Then they will strike at menthol cigarettes and finally flavored cigars. Look how fast clove cigarettes were removed from the market once the FDA signed on the dotted line. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32723154/ns/...rette-ban/

Don't think the power is not there because the FDA already did it once and has publically stated they are seeking to hit other tobacco products as well.

[Pete]

Agreed, Eric. "Us vs. Them" between cigarette vs. cigar smoking is confusing the real issue - Us (smokers) vs Them (government legislation). While I'm not 100% certain, I would wager ALL recent anti-smoking legislation related to the Clean Indoor Air Act has been indiscriminate with regard to the type of tobacco being smoked. The few "smoking bars" left in Pennsylvania couldn't care less whether their patrons are smoking cigarettes or cigars. I've gotten dirty looks from other patrons for smoking a "stinky cigar" (despite the fact that they have a cigarette in their hand) but I've never had an owner tell me my cigar smoking was unwelcome. I've seen patrons smoke cigarettes in my local cigar lounge, and no one batted an eye. One local bowling alley has a small, closed-off bar with a smoke eater. It's the only smoking establishment I've ever been in that permits cigarette smoking, but expressly prohibits cigars (even "Little Cigars"). That is the only instance in my travels where an establishment was openly discriminate in the type of tobacco being smoked.

Do I personally liken cigar smoking to cigarette smoking with regard to health risks? Admittedly not, with my argument favoring myself as a cigar smoker based solely on the Bill Clinton Clause. As to whether or not studies and health statistics support my claim is inconsequential for this argument, as the FDA is not going to use data that doesn't support their proposed legislation. I'm a statistician my professsion; Data can always be massaged in how it's reported, or in some cases NOT reported.

My point is, regardless of how we as cigar smokers might like to differentiate ourselves from cigarette smokers, the general opposition does not. Laws like these are much easier to enforce when they pertain to everyone.

[Admin]

I'm a statistician my professsion; Data can always be massaged in how it's reported, or in some cases NOT reported.

Very true, like:
Ten percent (10%) of all people who receive injuries in traffic accidents do so in alcohol-related crashes, according to NHTSA estimates. It is estimated that 3.22% of these injury-producing crashes involve intoxicated drivers. Seven percent (7%) of all traffic accidents involve alcohol use, according to NHTSA estimates. It is estimated that 2.25% of all vehicular crashes involve intoxicated drivers.

That can EASILY be twisted to say "the other 90% of accidents are caused by people drinking hot coffee, or water and other hard to open containers while driving." Protect us drunk drivers from those people drinking Starbucks on the road! Vote to ban Starbucks! LOL!