Beerlord Wrote:when i hav eto explaing really obvious shit like thwat the big 3 are, it get really annoying, if we were having this conversation inperson i would talk r e a l s l o w just to make sure you were getting it, fuck it i'm done wiht this subject an for now with this forum see ya.

admin Wrote:BL Thats slightly true, but not the reason.

#1 - All the darn tree-hugging anti-smoking environmentalists out there have forced much industry out of the country.  This didn't happen overnight.   This has nothing to do with where your car was made.  Sure, we have to watch the environment...but there needs to be a balance to keep industry here.   GM cannot compete with a foreign company when we have unions breaking the bank, heavy environmental restrictions, and products that are mediocre in comparison.  Basically too much overhead is going to equal low grade products at expensive prices.

#2 - Quality of the products.   I'm sorry but many of the cars/trucks being produced by GM/Ford have issues.  I'm not saying they are junk, but they do skimp on quality to get prices low and in the long run that hurts them.   I prefer to buy a car every 5 years, versus 2 cars every 6 years due to poor quality/problems.

We ALL buy foreign items everyday.  While it would be nice to say only buy American, its not even possible.   More than half the products we use everyday are from outside the US.   (including the fine cigars you smoke)

ColbyPants Wrote:

admin Wrote:BL Thats slightly true, but not the reason.

#1 - All the darn tree-hugging anti-smoking environmentalists out there have forced much industry out of the country.  This didn't happen overnight.   This has nothing to do with where your car was made.  Sure, we have to watch the environment...but there needs to be a balance to keep industry here.   GM cannot compete with a foreign company when we have unions breaking the bank, heavy environmental restrictions, and products that are mediocre in comparison.  Basically too much overhead is going to equal low grade products at expensive prices.

#2 - Quality of the products.   I'm sorry but many of the cars/trucks being produced by GM/Ford have issues.  I'm not saying they are junk, but they do skimp on quality to get prices low and in the long run that hurts them.   I prefer to buy a car every 5 years, versus 2 cars every 6 years due to poor quality/problems.

We ALL buy foreign items everyday.  While it would be nice to say only buy American, its not even possible.   More than half the products we use everyday are from outside the US.   (including the fine cigars you smoke)

I disagree with this.  #1 because the tree huggers and anti smokers are different groups (there are several conservative politicians in ohio for example who happily push pro buiness anti enviromental agendas, that also happily pushed the smoking ban, in both cases thinking they have the bottom line in mind)

#2 being enviromentally friendly can be economically sound.  I mean one of the biggest impressions regarding "foreign branded" automobiles (whether true or not) is that they are easier to maintain, and get better gas mileage, both things enviromentally friendly, and economically sound (in this day of spiking gas prices, mileage is a selling point!)! Honda and Toyota are making a killing in big cities with the (admittedly still small) quickly growing hybrid car markets.

if american auto makers stopped paying out all pensions tomorrow, they would be in much better shape to compete.

TomC

Tonto The Long Island Sidekick Wrote:

ColbyPants Wrote:

admin Wrote:BL Thats slightly true, but not the reason.

#1 - All the darn tree-hugging anti-smoking environmentalists out there have forced much industry out of the country.  This didn't happen overnight.   This has nothing to do with where your car was made.  Sure, we have to watch the environment...but there needs to be a balance to keep industry here.   GM cannot compete with a foreign company when we have unions breaking the bank, heavy environmental restrictions, and products that are mediocre in comparison.  Basically too much overhead is going to equal low grade products at expensive prices.

#2 - Quality of the products.   I'm sorry but many of the cars/trucks being produced by GM/Ford have issues.  I'm not saying they are junk, but they do skimp on quality to get prices low and in the long run that hurts them.   I prefer to buy a car every 5 years, versus 2 cars every 6 years due to poor quality/problems.

We ALL buy foreign items everyday.  While it would be nice to say only buy American, its not even possible.   More than half the products we use everyday are from outside the US.   (including the fine cigars you smoke)

I disagree with this.  #1 because the tree huggers and anti smokers are different groups (there are several conservative politicians in ohio for example who happily push pro buiness anti enviromental agendas, that also happily pushed the smoking ban, in both cases thinking they have the bottom line in mind)

#2 being enviromentally friendly can be economically sound.  I mean one of the biggest impressions regarding "foreign branded" automobiles (whether true or not) is that they are easier to maintain, and get better gas mileage, both things enviromentally friendly, and economically sound (in this day of spiking gas prices, mileage is a selling point!)! Honda and Toyota are making a killing in big cities with the (admittedly still small) quickly growing hybrid car markets.

if american auto makers stopped paying out all pensions tomorrow, they would be in much better shape to compete.

TomC

Regarding the cost of gas...

I believe that one of the reasons for the higher gas prices is due to the lack of refineries in the US. None have been built for the last 30 years or so & production is maxed out. Couple this with down time for maintenance & repairs (remember the hurricane damage). Add in how every little community seems to have their own "exotic" blend of gas. reg in NY is not the same as Reg. in ....say....VA, or Ohio.

Too many environmental hurdles are now required in order to build a new refinery.

I have a 2000 Ford Taurus.....V-6....and I hate the gas mileage that it gets. My wife's minivan gets better.

I put $20 into the tank tonight  only filled it about 1/2.

ColbyPants Wrote:Well in theory, wouldnt a reduction in demand for fossil fuels bring the price down? (not really as important to this thread, as the idea of fuel economy in general) My economics are not as strong as some here, I am sure.

TomC

admin Wrote:Maybe so, lots of things to blame and ponder why.  I can say that much industry has left the US to foreign countries because of environmental contraints and demands.   Don't get me wrong, I think we should try to protect the environment and such.   A good balance of industry, and environmental protection is required to maintain both a good work base and a safe place to live.   Our companies are either closing their doors completely, or moving parts of their operations off-shore.

Many of the tree-huggers are also the anti-smoking nazi's.   I meant that as a general phrase of how groups of people get together and drive business away either directly, or indirectly from their actions.  Steel production in the US is not anything like it used to be.
http://www.steelonthenet.com/production.html

The US was the ONLY one with a decrease in production.
Steel production in the 25 member countries of the European Union [color="green"]increased[/color] by 2.5% in November 2006
In the rest of Europe the largest producer is Turkey, where steel production [color="green"]increased[/color] by 13.4% in November
In the CIS countries crude steel production in Russia [color="green"]rose[/color] by 7.5%
Steel production in the USA was [color="red"]down[/color] by 5.5% in November
In South America, Brazilian crude steel production [color="green"]increased[/color] by 2.6%
Middle Eastern steel showed mixed fortunes with Iranian production in the eleven months [color="green"]up[/color] 4.4%
In Asia Chinese steel production is still rising, [color="green"]up[/color] 24.1% in November

Other countries are not really buying "American" because we are not putting out a good product at a reasonable price.  The US economy is not going to increase when other countries are not giving us their money for our products.   Even if WE buy American, we are only moving our money from one pocket to the next.  Its like paying your wife to do the dishes...its the same money in the same family and nobody gets any richer, but the bills still keep coming.

And yes, the gas sucks!  A week ago the price was $2.19 a gal for the cheap-o gas.   Today it was $2.39.   I noticed it creeping up every couple days since we got that huge snowstorm.   I doubt that the storm really had much effect on price, its the stations trying to cash in again because they "can".

Big question is, can GM make a better product at a lower price even after the lay-off?

Beerlord Wrote:when i hav eto explaing really obvious shit like thwat the big 3 are, it get really annoying, if we were having this conversation inperson i would talk r e a l s l o w just to make sure you were getting it, fuck it i'm done wiht this subject an for now with this forum see ya.

admin Wrote::?  And who are the big three?   Actually, I really don't know either.   I know that GM is one since they make Buick, Pontiac, GMC, GM, Chevrolet, Cadillac, Hummer, Saturn, and Saab.

Ford would be another (Lincoln, Mercury, Mazda, Volvo, Jaguar, Land Rover, Aston Martin)

I believe that Chrysler is the 3rd?

Either way BL, the thread was started by Maduro_Scotty and if you feel we are all stupid, then don't post here.  Don't come into someone elses thread and start name calling.

I'm no car manufacturer buff but certainly can explain why I bought the cars and trucks I have in the past.   While I would love to always buy everything American, its just not possible to always get a quality product by doing so.   I personally didn't know who the "big 3" were and I'm pretty sure that I guessed correctly as the rest of the companies I can think of are foreign ones.   I actually thought that Volvo and Jaguar was foreign as well, but they are actually Ford.