OHIO Smoking ban damage - videos

[JoeBob]

i no way support this ban, but really, the ban has been in place for a few years in NY and no one had to shut their doors here. In fact I have heard that while some establishments have lost some business (& it eventually picked up) & others boatsed an increase.

Why is Ohio so different?

It has to do with the "type" of bar it is.

This place was in a strip mall, boasted several pool tables, indoor cornhole, and average drink prices. Nothing to do but drink. No patio, nowhere for a smoker to go for a cigarette (or cigar) other than out into the parking lot...literally...you have to be so far away from entrances, there's a gym on one side and a pet store on the other.

Meanwhile, the sports bar/restaurant with a patio just 2 miles away is seeing higher sales. The customer is distracted by the big TV's and if they want a smoke they can take their drink out to the patio and do their thing.

Meanwhile, the CIGAR BAR just 10 miles down the road in the rich part of town (that has been open for just over a year, with a state-of-the-art air filtration system) has to make the choice of buying lot next to it to create a patio or close it doors. All they sell is booze, cigars, locker space, & offer a cool place to smoke. Nobody, nobody, nobody is willing to pay money for the privlege of keeping their cigars in a locker at a place they can't smoke in.

[ColbyPants]

no disrespect to the subject matter and sorry for the threadjack but i've always been amazed by protests.  shouldn't these people be at work?

Thats the kind of sentiment that has killed the usefulness of the protest. Its one of the few constitutional ways for the average man to legally express displeasure at government action (voting for who you think will do right sure doesnt work as they only think of themselves). Guess we should all sit back as they prohibit smoking (and take our other rights away as well) completely.

TomC

tom i love your optimism and penchance for overstatement but i couldn't disagree with you any more completely.  First the constitution doesn't exist to protect your rights.  It exists to protect other's stuff from us.  Namely this is ours and yuo can;t have it for this, this, and this legal reason.  All b/s.  To whit: there are two methods of maintaining control and order: "leadership" has the guns and the people don't (see most third world dictatorships / oligarchies) and financial / legal control: see most of the first world. Read: financial feudalism. 

they allow people to dance and strut in the streets because no one cares.  if it truly got close to home they would disband your protest in a number of manners, all of them "legal".  be it your lack of a permit, exceeding the maximum occupancy of an area, block a firelane, etc.  read up on any protest of value and you'll see how it was disbanded.  in addition when acceptable (read plausable saleability to the general public via the media) they will not hesitate to blast you out of there with a firehose if need be.  it has been done.  they will suspend your leagal rights for some quasi-fabricated reason.  see abbey hoffman.  duct taped at his own trial.  bottom line is that it's not me making a protest impotent by saying meh.  it's the government saying meh by not breaking it up.

next point.  the protesters.  there is a small contingent who are honest people who believe it what they stand for.  the rest are abercrombie and fitch hang-ons who either a.) want to look cool because they just read kerouc or something eddie vedder told them to do b.) are trying to score with some chick by showing they're all environmentally, financially, morally or whatever concerned or c.) they're looking for something to do and lastly d.) the fun ones who are looking to score a free joint.  the rest of us do have a conscience and do care.  unfortunately if i don't go to work i will lose my job.  if i lose my job the horseshit overpriced worthless insurance policy i have will lapse.  then the next time my wife needs emergency room services she'll have to wait behind every piece of trash with gang related gunshot wounds, stabbings, those looking for prescription drugs to feed a fix, or those looking for attention.  oh wait.  we wait behind them anyway.  but that's another story.

bottom line is this protests do shit no matter how righteous they might be.  see tianeman square.  how'd that turn out?  you can shoot a man in the street and the world will forget.  and before you all say but that's china do your history and look up kent state.  this is not to say  that the pursuit is not noble.  but real change requires a dedication not shared by most.  how many would abandon their homes, families, lifestyles to pursue a life of change?  sleep on a dirt bed for months, years, fighting the fight?  give up everything for a cause.  this is the struggle that goes on in true revolutions not protests dictated from the pages of rolling stone. 

now as to eric's point.  i believe you are on the mark.  the game is theirs.  the ball is theirs.  change the rules and they'll take the ball and go home.  however they deal in money.  and money can be their undoing.  the trick is to form / fund a pac for the cigar community.  the patels, fuentes, padrons, olivas, gomez, etc. need to form their own consortium for the purpose of defending the cigar market against these policies.  the pac group then finds it's own medical team who will testify how it wants, it's own lawyers who will defend cases how it wants, and finally it's own politicians who will vote for and against legislation in it's best interests.  as this group grows financially it can then attract bigger and more influential politocos as funding allows because come campaign time every coffer needs a friend.  distance yourself from cigarettes.  cozy up to the wine markets, the liquor markets, the fine car and watch markets.  extend the product as a lavish product for the upscale individual who is only enjoying the just deserves of his labors and we all love hard workers.  seel the image.  think it's crazy?  phillip morris and everyone else has been doing it for years.  see thank you for smoking. 

don't read DO NOT go direct to the media.  the media is out to sell cable subscriptions and magazines not the truth.  they cannot be counted on to report accurately or how you present it.  they will seel you down the river for a ratings point.  HOWEVER if they report on the activities of your pac your pac will have the influence in the private sector to influence the media station by influencing their life blood: their advertising dollar. 

bottom line here is a protest is at it's core appealing to man's rational side.  rationality left two with cain and able.  the world deals in blood and dollars. i'm not looking to die for any man's cause so i'll look to manipulate the dollars to my benefit.  so should everyone.  see famous amos.  the diamond district.  i can go on.  you can't stop certain people from hating you or blaming you for their ills or taking away your things for your own good or their own benefit BUT you can control them and eliminate their threat throught the strategic divestiture of capital.  the system exists to separate us all and get us blaming eachother so that we don't all unite together to protect ourselves from them.  bottom line is that to in fact protect ourselves we must stand as one and manipulate the game to our advantages.  don't complain about the game.  don't cry that's it's un fair or unjust.  find the thread and then pull it bringing down the house.

 

 

and i'd still vote for you in a heartbeat tomzo.  i think you're one of the last true untainted hearts.  good show sir.

however if you should be interested i'll drop you a line with the date and time of the next protest my father will be attending. 

Well I guess since my representation doesnt listen to me aqnd I dont have enough money to lobby.  I should sit here and take it.



TomC

[Rob The Long Island Cowboy]

no disrespect to the subject matter and sorry for the threadjack but i've always been amazed by protests.  shouldn't these people be at work?

Thats the kind of sentiment that has killed the usefulness of the protest. Its one of the few constitutional ways for the average man to legally express displeasure at government action (voting for who you think will do right sure doesnt work as they only think of themselves). Guess we should all sit back as they prohibit smoking (and take our other rights away as well) completely.

TomC

tom i love your optimism and penchance for overstatement but i couldn't disagree with you any more completely.  First the constitution doesn't exist to protect your rights.  It exists to protect other's stuff from us.  Namely this is ours and yuo can;t have it for this, this, and this legal reason.  All b/s.  To whit: there are two methods of maintaining control and order: "leadership" has the guns and the people don't (see most third world dictatorships / oligarchies) and financial / legal control: see most of the first world. Read: financial feudalism. 

they allow people to dance and strut in the streets because no one cares.  if it truly got close to home they would disband your protest in a number of manners, all of them "legal".  be it your lack of a permit, exceeding the maximum occupancy of an area, block a firelane, etc.  read up on any protest of value and you'll see how it was disbanded.  in addition when acceptable (read plausable saleability to the general public via the media) they will not hesitate to blast you out of there with a firehose if need be.  it has been done.  they will suspend your leagal rights for some quasi-fabricated reason.  see abbey hoffman.  duct taped at his own trial.  bottom line is that it's not me making a protest impotent by saying meh.  it's the government saying meh by not breaking it up.

next point.  the protesters.  there is a small contingent who are honest people who believe it what they stand for.  the rest are abercrombie and fitch hang-ons who either a.) want to look cool because they just read kerouc or something eddie vedder told them to do b.) are trying to score with some chick by showing they're all environmentally, financially, morally or whatever concerned or c.) they're looking for something to do and lastly d.) the fun ones who are looking to score a free joint.  the rest of us do have a conscience and do care.  unfortunately if i don't go to work i will lose my job.  if i lose my job the horseshit overpriced worthless insurance policy i have will lapse.  then the next time my wife needs emergency room services she'll have to wait behind every piece of trash with gang related gunshot wounds, stabbings, those looking for prescription drugs to feed a fix, or those looking for attention.  oh wait.  we wait behind them anyway.  but that's another story.

bottom line is this protests do shit no matter how righteous they might be.  see tianeman square.  how'd that turn out?  you can shoot a man in the street and the world will forget.  and before you all say but that's china do your history and look up kent state.  this is not to say  that the pursuit is not noble.  but real change requires a dedication not shared by most.  how many would abandon their homes, families, lifestyles to pursue a life of change?  sleep on a dirt bed for months, years, fighting the fight?  give up everything for a cause.  this is the struggle that goes on in true revolutions not protests dictated from the pages of rolling stone. 

now as to eric's point.  i believe you are on the mark.  the game is theirs.  the ball is theirs.  change the rules and they'll take the ball and go home.  however they deal in money.  and money can be their undoing.  the trick is to form / fund a pac for the cigar community.  the patels, fuentes, padrons, olivas, gomez, etc. need to form their own consortium for the purpose of defending the cigar market against these policies.  the pac group then finds it's own medical team who will testify how it wants, it's own lawyers who will defend cases how it wants, and finally it's own politicians who will vote for and against legislation in it's best interests.  as this group grows financially it can then attract bigger and more influential politocos as funding allows because come campaign time every coffer needs a friend.  distance yourself from cigarettes.  cozy up to the wine markets, the liquor markets, the fine car and watch markets.  extend the product as a lavish product for the upscale individual who is only enjoying the just deserves of his labors and we all love hard workers.  seel the image.  think it's crazy?  phillip morris and everyone else has been doing it for years.  see thank you for smoking. 

don't read DO NOT go direct to the media.  the media is out to sell cable subscriptions and magazines not the truth.  they cannot be counted on to report accurately or how you present it.  they will seel you down the river for a ratings point.  HOWEVER if they report on the activities of your pac your pac will have the influence in the private sector to influence the media station by influencing their life blood: their advertising dollar. 

bottom line here is a protest is at it's core appealing to man's rational side.  rationality left two with cain and able.  the world deals in blood and dollars. i'm not looking to die for any man's cause so i'll look to manipulate the dollars to my benefit.  so should everyone.  see famous amos.  the diamond district.  i can go on.  you can't stop certain people from hating you or blaming you for their ills or taking away your things for your own good or their own benefit BUT you can control them and eliminate their threat throught the strategic divestiture of capital.  the system exists to separate us all and get us blaming eachother so that we don't all unite together to protect ourselves from them.  bottom line is that to in fact protect ourselves we must stand as one and manipulate the game to our advantages.  don't complain about the game.  don't cry that's it's un fair or unjust.  find the thread and then pull it bringing down the house.

 

 

and i'd still vote for you in a heartbeat tomzo.  i think you're one of the last true untainted hearts.  good show sir.

however if you should be interested i'll drop you a line with the date and time of the next protest my father will be attending. 

Well I guess since my representation doesnt listen to me aqnd I dont have enough money to lobby.  I should sit here and take it.



TomC

no.  you missed my point sir.  you should continue to support your favorite manufacturers.  it's their responsibility to insure their ability to deliver product to you.  what we can do is write letters to our guys be them litto, jose, whomever and ask them what THEY'RE doing about these bans not stupid rocky videos telling us to do something so he can sell product.  remember we'll just have to smoke incognito.  they'll be hit in the wallet.

[bartok]

i no way support this ban, but really, the ban has been in place for a few years in NY and no one had to shut their doors here. In fact I have heard that while some establishments have lost some business (& it eventually picked up) & others boatsed an increase.

Why is Ohio so different?

Smoking is banned everywhere near me, and I have to say, the bars are cleaner and maybe even more well attended.  And I also have to admit that I really do prefer not stiking of cigarette smoke at the end of the evening.  My impression is that the availability of entertainment $$ in peoples wallets is the primary driver for that business.

The thing that irks me is that a property owner and his patrons loose the right to decide for themselves what they want to be exposed to.  But I don't see any major economic effects, other than that business might be better than it was.  Why a business owner in a free country can't decide for themselves whether they want that economic benefit is beyond me.  And shouldn't someone get the benefit of being the only bar left in town that doesn't prohibit smoking?