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E-Mails
#11
Thanks for the replies guys,

Headley, cheers.

I too found myself smiling and loving the setiment put forward by the Australians, at first I though that this was just a vote winner by the folks in question, but when you hear them speak on TV or PC, they are just average joes, just like you would expect people from Australia to be. They just seem to be years ahead of the UK with their "Its our country, fit in or F*@k off" attitude, by the time the UK government realise that they are being governed by political correctness gone mad, they will find themselves asking "Please can we have our country back?"

Snakeman,

I always thought that the rules were for everybody in the UK. The laws concerning crash helmets for motorcycles opened my eyes to the fact that our government were spineless, in my book ......... no helmet means breaking the law. If your religion dictates that you cant wear a helmet because of the head-dress you must wear, then its simple, in the UK you will not be able to ride a motorcycle ..... end of discussion. When in Rome as they say. Its the same for the knives, they are regarded as offensive weapons in the UK, many Scotsmen should have stood up and declared racism when finding out that under religious laws it was allowed to be waved,

I AM A NATIVE OF MY COUNTRY HUNDREDS OF GENERATIONS PAST, TAX PAYING, LAW ABIDING AND PROUD OF MY NATIONAL HERITAGE AND ITS DRESS CODE. To tell me I must swap my Dubh for a fake, and then allow others to continue is dissgraceful.

Its as I said, my rights are worth less than they were, and our guests rights are worth more ........... definatly no Australian "Fair Go" there.

 

Rob:

You were bang on the money .......... It's not racial profiling.  It's called description of the suspect.
The 2 most important days of your life are: The day you were born & the day you find out why
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#12
Not A Nice Person Wrote:[user=75]LC stogiechat homebrew gnome[/user] wrote:
Quote:yeah, folks w/ too much time and not surpressing the urge to spout thier bullsh*.

These are the kinds of things that just help perpetuate ignorance and hate, IMHO.

Really?

So . . . you feel we shouldn't pay any special attention to Middle Eastern males between 17 and 40 in regards to terrorism or airport security?

Why not, if I may ask?

NANPâ„¢
[cigar]

I am referring to the email specifically.  That email is not directed to an agency w/ factual information about a present situation, it is taking a VERY general population and encouraging everyone to look at that population and blame them and hate them. 

In past situations, there has been a more specific face of "the enemy".  This is a situation where we don't have that, but despite that, we decide that ALL muslims and ALL middle eastern males are terrorists, so, if we are so damn smart and so advanced, how come our only approach is point at a population of millions of people and declare them the enemy.

And please don't get me wrong, this is no stab at our armed forces, or at the effort to get rid of terrorism, I am just not a fan of seeing racism and calling it something else. 
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#13
great food for thought, parkster. a complicated situation, or maybe very simple. i'm for common sense, and not going hard and going deep on the 88 year old granny in the security line. here's my take...

i get the turbo search every time i go through the airport because of the titanium in my lower spine. before i go through the metal detector, i tell them about it, and they promptly say, "this way, please." sit, shoes, belt, grope, questions... no biggie. doesn't bother me at all. in fact, i usually strike up some interesting conversations with the security guys. as he inspected my rum flask and cigar box, the last guy told me how he pans for gold on the american river during the summer. his big grin told me how much he appreciated being treated like a human being, instead of the usual scowl and eye roll.

to sum up, i don't see why anyone would get all huffy about security. you're just gonna wait around for boarding anyways, so why not have a conversation or two. that is... unless... they're targeting tall geeky dudes of swedish decent with disc replacements!!! racism! get the aclu on the horn!

i can't pretend to be a muslim, but if i were, and loved peace, i don't think i'd mind being searched. to all these uptight folks... just f***ing relax and cooperate. it ain't gonna destroy your fragile ego. if your personal happiness hinges on a security measure, perhaps there's something a little closer to home you should be worried about.
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#14
LC stogiechat homebrew gnome Wrote:
Not A Nice Person Wrote:[user=75]LC stogiechat homebrew gnome[/user] wrote:
Quote:yeah, folks w/ too much time and not surpressing the urge to spout thier bullsh*.

These are the kinds of things that just help perpetuate ignorance and hate, IMHO.

Really?

So . . . you feel we shouldn't pay any special attention to Middle Eastern males between 17 and 40 in regards to terrorism or airport security?

Why not, if I may ask?

NANPâ„¢
[cigar]

I am referring to the email specifically.  That email is not directed to an agency w/ factual information about a present situation, it is taking a VERY general population and encouraging everyone to look at that population and blame them and hate them. 

In past situations, there has been a more specific face of "the enemy".  This is a situation where we don't have that, but despite that, we decide that ALL muslims and ALL middle eastern males are terrorists, so, if we are so damn smart and so advanced, how come our only approach is point at a population of millions of people and declare them the enemy.

And please don't get me wrong, this is no stab at our armed forces, or at the effort to get rid of terrorism, I am just not a fan of seeing racism and calling it something else. 

I agree with you on the racism side of the e-mail, thats what bothered me the most. I mean come on ........ its a very general description to have Male ..... 17 years of age to 40 years of age, islamic or middle eastern in looks ..... hell, after the past couple of months here, I look like a local myself, dark eyes, dark hair and dark skin.

But ..... I also cannot see why there should be a problem with searches of middle eastern males, and why in an effort to reduce any offence it may cause, the decison was made to not do exactly that ....... I cant remember ever having read that an 80 year old woman ever commited any act of terrorism from her wheel chair.

I am random drug tested more regularly than most in my proffession ...... I fit the bill because of my tattoo's, however, I have no problems with it as I have nothing to hide, I understand that I also have a certain look after a month burning over here, and as a result I also get more checks and questions than normal when passing through an airport ....... again, I have nothing to hide, so it is not a problem.

This is why I am struggling with some of the issue's in those e-mails.

I know they are distributed by people who ARE racist, but I can relate to some of the issues, and there are a lot of facts that are easy to confirm ....... yes I know its easy to make facts say what you would like them to say, but get rid of the 17-40 bit and just have Muslim Extremist, and they become FACT.

The second e-mail is the one I can relate to mostly, the UK is currently PC Insane. We have a threat in our own back yard....... the latest attempt to bomb flights was to be carried out be British born Muslims ....... go figure, the bombings on the London busses and tube's was also carried out be British born Muslims. What our government do is surpress any thoughts that the average joe may have by calling any and all discussion on the subject... potentially racist ...

As I said earlier, I'm not racist, never have been, but the word itself can be used in so many wrong ways to eliminate any discussion and surpress any free thought.

I put this to the forum:

Have ANY of you ever laughed at a joke that may have contained a character of different race, creed or colour than yourself?

My bets are on every man jack of you have at some point in your life.

Does it make you racist?
The 2 most important days of your life are: The day you were born & the day you find out why
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#15
Parkster Wrote:I put this to the forum:

Have ANY of you ever laughed at a joke that may have contained a character of different race, creed or colour than yourself?

My bets are on every man jack of you have at some point in your life.

Does it make you racist?

 

I think very important to this whole discussion is the concept of intention.  There are some jokes that I have out right thought were hilarious, some I thought were funny and in poor taste, and others that just rub me wrong.  But even a joke that rubs me wrong doesn't usually leave me thinking that the person has ill intentions towards said group of people. 

I think the second email represents one intention, to let thier voice be heard and wanting to protect the sanctity of thier land.  Whether this is a right or wrong way, who knows, but I can see that intention in the words.

The first email has an entirely different intention, and to me that intention is more specific to perpetuating a stereotype than solving a problem.   
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#16
I am a racist.  We are all racists.  We all develop behavioral dispositions based upon past experiences.  It's called the last vesitges of our inborn survival instincts that haven't been worn away by years of psycho bombardment by a politically-correct obsessed society.  We're not racists because we did anything.  The word racist has been linked and defined with the most abhorrant behavior that has no socio-economic link with the matters to which it is currently being applied.  However the negative connotation has become such stigma that being a racist today is akin to being a witch in salem.  Anything but that.  No no I love everyone.  Please.  The line to kiss my ass forms to the right.

To whit:

1.  If cro-magnon man still were alive today he'd be considered discriminated upon and all of society's machinations would be dumbed down so that he too could prosper in our society. 

Laugh at this.  Then think of all of the legal "resonable accomodations" that lawsuits have provided for in our society.  We do not encourage excellent.  We do not encourage achievement.  We reward mediocrity. 

I encourage you all to read the Time Machine.  I know reading isn't en vogue anymore but give it a whirl.  Shit at least get the cliff notes or heavan forbid one of the movies.

2.  You've all taken your families to the mall.  Often times a group of hoodlum looking folk will walk the other way.  You instictively maneuver yourself between them and your family.  It's just good business.  If you don't  you're already lost.  Go back to reading the constitution in korean. 

3.  I believe in economic stratification.  If you can afford to live somewhere or do something more power to you.  Just because you want something doesn't mean you deserve it  or can have it na dyou're not having it certainly doesn't mean you've been discrimintated by not having it.  What does everyone want?  Rent controlled apartments in Quogue? 

Let a minority fellow start up a business and only hire minority workers.  Let him make a product that the majority's kids want more than anything.  Force their parents to work too long and too hard to buy the shit.  Check.  Rap.  Eminem.  Ding ding ding.  Winner.

Ah but here's where the rub is.  Why doesn't Puffy go back to the community?  Build it up.  Clean it up.  Give back.  Nope.  He goes out to the Hamptons to hang with Russell Simmons.  Why?  Because it's all about money.

If the "disciminated upon" don't do anything about the discrimination (marching in the streets solves nothing and is a way of time) has he been discriminated against?

4.  Sit back and use your brain.  Does anyone believe that if 80% of a population is made up of a group that's 25% of the general population that this can't be right and 80% of them must be wrongfully accused.  Help me out here.

5.  Man isn't perfect.  We're all flawed.  We're doing the best to get a correct answer from a broken computer.  Be satisfied with an answer that's mostly correct or you're spend eternity waiting for a completely correct one.  Well not eternity but at least a little while until they either still it or blow it up.

Bottom line here is treat people like you'd like to be treated.  But be smart about it.  Don't risk yourself, your family, or your country to cow-tow to someone's bullshit definition of civility when they live in an insulated world so alien from yours that you wouldn't recognize it.  Don't blanket hate.  But on the other hand don't blanket trust either.    

 Don't lower your guard because you're trying to be a good person by someone else's rules.  Be a good person by your rules and to hell with them.  Racism is haning a man from a tree by his neck until dead because of his skin color.  Looking at an 18 year old muslim with a cocked eye is not. 

Here's a secret...

They're hating all of you right now in certain parts of the world, discriminating upon, you, planning to hurt you and yours, flailing away to end everything you hold dear.  You go hug those folks because hey you're a nice virtuous person. 

My advice?

Pray there's a heavan because this train of thought will get you there right quick.

 

on the other hand....

if you want to live your life like sinatra intended come over to the racists. 

hey, we've got t-shirts.
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#17
[user=44]Rob The Long Island Cowboy[/user] wrote:
[quote Don't blanket hate.  But on the other hand don't blanket trust either.[/quote]]

that nails it.
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#18
Rob you are exactly correct in your assessment of these emails and your beliefs. You have put to words my sentiments exactly.

Both of these emails have been around for a while though and attrbuted to several different people. Although it plainly states what most of us feel, the true author has never been identified. It is normally claimed by some actor or politician. However, you know any politician who depends upon votes may think this, he would never write this unless he did not want to get re-elected. And what politician doesn't want to die in office? I have not yet met or heard of him. And most actors, unless it was written for them, couldn't articulate these thoughts on their own. (Sorry,I'm profiling).

 
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#19
rasism is one thig and selective targeting of possible terrorist suspects is a different thing.

i will relate to a friend of mine from many years of service in northern ireland. my friend alexander james patrick murphy, or murf as he was well known, was a britishj military policeman, but everytime he flew home from ireland, it was a twenty question full search, just because of his name, but rather than draw attention to himself he went with the flow.

security is there for a reason, people who have nothing to hide have no problems, but there will always be the wingers, and no one will ever stop that
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